tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post3764809424193648128..comments2024-03-17T13:31:15.327+05:30Comments on TuLu Research & Studies: 219. PāD-danaRavindra Mundkurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09073231068374498281noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-73876616225380341062010-01-01T08:23:48.493+05:302010-01-01T08:23:48.493+05:30If I take a different path it does not mean disreg...If I take a different path it does not mean disregard other paths. An explorer should be able to search out new paths, if not anything else.It is not necessary for realization that everyone should blindly walk along the same road. And what the genetic data say?Do have any conclusive evidences yet?<br />And what do you mean by the 'spirit of Satya'?Ravindra Mundkurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09073231068374498281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-85486248488675500202009-12-31T20:57:11.029+05:302009-12-31T20:57:11.029+05:30My understanding is that you have total disregard ...My understanding is that you have total disregard for linguistic methods and genetic studies. I don't question them as I believe they have served very well in many aspects. However, you not only dismiss them but also have not come up with your own methodologies. <br /><br />Maybe you are well aware of your own inconsistencies when dealing with the data. I believe your truth is Churchill's truth which you have displayed in this blog. You are not bothered about 'spirit' of 'Satya' of your own culture.Manju Edangamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00474338169829802934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-59775102252779687482009-12-31T15:55:41.575+05:302009-12-31T15:55:41.575+05:30Minor strings of data have been and are being inte...Minor strings of data have been and are being interpreted diversely by different authors, creating in the process several 'apparent truths'.However,it should be realized that only one set of inferences can be closer or equal to the 'real' historical truth.Only time can tell and distinguish the real from the apparent ones.<br />If you disagree with my inferences,fine, that is your right.After all, this is only an exploration and not the final word!Ravindra Mundkurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09073231068374498281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-19464933670741137222009-12-27T19:14:39.033+05:302009-12-27T19:14:39.033+05:30Please remove "-with inputs from Manjunat.&qu...Please remove "-with inputs from Manjunat." I hope you respect my opinion that I don't accept the tone of the acknowledgment. No problems in making use of the sources. However, they were certainly not given as additional proof for your thoughts. <br /><br />Of course, I don't have any problems with your arguments per se. I just disagree with them.Manju Edangamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00474338169829802934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-33166977901473034382009-12-27T09:55:15.046+05:302009-12-27T09:55:15.046+05:30Thank You.With due respects to subject authorities...Thank You.With due respects to subject authorities like Russell, let me present my viewpoint:<br />Pardans(like Panals,Panans) were the bards to Kings who also acted like ministers.Because of the seriousness attached to ministries in due course, 'pardan' bards literally evolved into 'pradhan' ministers.<br />[Please check some additions to the post.]Ravindra Mundkurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09073231068374498281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-59903921013143817202009-12-26T21:34:48.199+05:302009-12-26T21:34:48.199+05:30About Pardhan:
_Pardhan, Pathari, Panal._--An infe...About Pardhan:<br /><i>_Pardhan, Pathari, Panal._--An inferior branch of the Gond tribe whose<br />occupation is to act as the priests and minstrels of the Gonds. In<br />1911 the Pardhans numbered nearly 120,000 persons in the Central<br />Provinces and Berar. The only other locality where they are found is<br />Hyderabad, which returned 8000. The name Pardhan is of Sanskrit origin<br />and signifies a minister or agent. It is the regular designation of the<br />principal minister of a Rajput State, who often fulfils the functions<br />of a Mayor of the Palace. That it was applied to the tribe in this<br />sense is shown by the fact that they are also known as Diwan, which<br />has the same meaning. There is a tradition that the Gond kings employed<br />Pardhans as their ministers, and as the Pardhans acted as genealogists<br />they may have been more intelligent than the Gonds, though they are<br />in no degree less illiterate. To themselves and their Gond relations<br />the Pardhans are frequently not known by that name, which has been<br />given to them by the Hindus, but as Panal.</i><br /><br />Ref:<br /> <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/r#a9405" rel="nofollow">The Tribes and Castes of the Central Provinces of India</a> By R. V. Russell Vol IVManju Edangamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00474338169829802934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-35938070379299499972009-12-26T12:53:11.230+05:302009-12-26T12:53:11.230+05:30Thank You Manju,for pointing out the Pali/Prakrit ...Thank You Manju,for pointing out the Pali/Prakrit word paTThana.It could be a lost cognate of partena/paDdana.(It is evident from the fact that one of the Pali volumes is called patthana.).Tamil Panan is related to Tulu word paN (=to tell, recite)and also to pambada.<br />It is difficult without accurate or relative dates to decide on what was substrate and/or what is adstrate.All our present interpretations at present are relative without factual clues regarding the realistic antiquity of various tribes.<br />One more possibility,besides your suggestions, is that Prakrit words were brought in by the Dravidian immigrants in the southern peninsula.Ravindra Mundkurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09073231068374498281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-842465514699048204.post-47679295361705639012009-12-25T12:54:46.048+05:302009-12-25T12:54:46.048+05:30Gond bards' actual identity is 'pANal'...Gond bards' actual identity is 'pANal'. These are Dravidian bards found among other Dravidians like - Tamils and Malayalis (pANan). In fact, even in Kannada the word for dancing girl 'pANbe'is a cognate (DED 4068). Pardhan is corrupted from of Sanskrit word Pradhan (prime minister or minister). These bards/genealogists acted as ministers to their Gond kings and hence the title.<br /><br />- Tulu/Kannada pada and padya are derived from Sanskrit word 'padya' (poetry) which has a dual word for prose 'gadya'. It appears the Sanskrit/Prakrit word for song has killed the original Dravidian word 'pAD' in Tulu. I suppose, D->r changes are common hence pArdana and pADdana are cognates.<br /><br />- In the case of pADdana, I would think it's actually derived from a Prakrit word which is cognate to Sanskrit word 'prArthana'. I came across a Pali word <a href="http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2:1:1504.pali" rel="nofollow">patthana</a>. I am not sure how it is pronounced. From the look of it, it could be 'paT-thanaa'. I suppose very close to pAD-dana. <br /><br />In my opinion, Dravidian expansion from Central Indian region to South India was an event that included assimilated Prakrit speakers. The survival of Dravidian languages maybe because Dravidian tribal chieftains still controlled their masses (in contrast to Maharashtra where probably Dravidian tribes were ruled by Indo-Aryan elites). Considering that many Prakrit speakers were assimilated into Dravidian speakers, there could be adstrate and superstrate of IE languages (but not substrate of older languages).Manju Edangamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00474338169829802934noreply@blogger.com